Want Some Answers ???
>>Thankyou for taking the trouble to give such a detailed reply, but repetitive and, as you perceive
rightly, unconvincing in its constant refrain (Holy Spirit is the enlightener).<<
And your replies have not answered the verses I mentioned. There are now many verses and comment in my emails you overlook. It's disappointing and reflects badly on Christadelphian claims to have the truth. Why not explain the reason my verses ware 'unconvincing'? Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John always explained scripture to their opponents.
According to the bible you are in a very serious situation. Without the Holy Spirit you are unregenerate and spiritually discerned, unable to understand 'the deep things of God'. And not even a child of God. Does this not trouble you? It should!! In the end you must decide who will be the final authority -John Thomas or the Bible.
>>Remember your arguments have
to be watertight and not contradict the plain teachings of Christ and the
apostles. We have to ask ourselves candidly when we read though the wrttings of
the apostles are they teaching what you allege. Or are they teaching some thing entirely different.<<
I just quoted what the bible says. I quoted the plain teachings of Christ and the apostles. It was not my arguments what I allege at all. Many can understand the plain teaching of the bible and have accepted Christ as their Saviour, it's not something unique to me. It was John Thomas that doesn't have watertight arguments, he thought he rediscovered a long lost gospel. He contradicts the bible.
Even so, I have now discovered you won't take any notice of what the bible says, so you certainly won't take any notice what I say!! I quoted the bible, you took no notice. This makes me wonder why I should discuss bible doctrine with you, when you haven't even repented of sin and received the Holy Spirit.
>>1. Q. I am still not clear from your answer whether you believe man has an immortal soul? You seem to argue that only the converted have immortality gaurunteed? (1Jhn11-13; Jhn.6.27). In which case the unconverted remain death stricken and go to oblivion (the grave). They are like the beasts that perish in he words of Ecclesiastes (Eccl.3.19)<<
John Thomas came from a time in history when some started to believe 'science' explained life better than the bible. Darwin's days. The evolutionary 'Science' of naturalism was considered the explanation to everything. Thomas was influenced by Darwinism (and other theories) which rejected supernatural beings, miracles, spiritual realities, no the trinity, no God in the flesh, no devil. And they argued man was just an animal body, with no soul or spirit, this was regarded incompatible with 'science'.
Also, in those days they didn't have the massive scholarship of today or understand the original biblical languages. The problem of Christadelphianism is it has no Greek NT scholar that supports it's doctrines. The Greek word for 'destroy' never means annihilation (or cease to exist). See any Greek New Testament about hell, soul, spirit, devil, death, etc. Sorry to tell you but you have been fooled into thinking the bible says something it doesn't (not your fault). Don't let Thomas tell you what to believe, let the bible.
Timothy indicates that life and immortality were NOT brought to light in the times before the Gospel came. Life and immortality were existent before Christ but not clearly revealed. So you shouldn't allow Old Testament verses to cloud your thinking. The bible is a progressive revelation of truth and its not until the New Testament and Jesus Christ that we have full revelation. So yes, I believe man is a body, soul and spirit. So the OT saints haven't ceased to exist - “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living" (Mt.22:32).
The Scriptures carefully distinguish between Eternal Life and Immortality. Your teachers have confounded (and with little excuse for doing so) two things that are utterly unlike. They are not synonymous. The word immortal [like its opposite, mortal] is applied in Scripture to the body. I am at present occupying a mortal body and don’t have yet immortality. At Christ’s Coming I shall be clothed with incorruption and shall put on immortality; for I shall receive a body like Christ’s [I Cor.15:51-55 2 Cor.5:1-4 Phil.3:21]. Yet I have eternal life NOW. The Spirit is Life, and He indwells believers now, occupying their mortal bodies. The Spirit is life [Rom.8.10], His Spirit that dwelleth in you. Here we find the Spirit of Life indwelling the mortal bodies of believers. If then, you have not eternal life, it is because you do not belong to Christ, for if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Most who study Scripture know that Ecclesiastes portrays Solomon’s apostasy so is questionable for determining doctrine. It sketches life “under the sun” and reveals the emptiness of the soul apart from God. Whether death, labour, wisdom, instruction, etc., it views all things from a natural standpoint “All is vanity”. However, note your verse refers to the body. Consider where the spirit [Ec.11:5] which survives death [Ec.12.7] is mentioned -
“God’s ways are as mysterious as the pathway of the wind, and as the manner in which a human spirit is infused into the little body of baby while it is yet in it’s mother's womb” [“so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things” NIV]. “…and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it”.
According to Christadelphian’s JW’s, materialist, evolutionist and atheist, man is just an animal. According to Scripture, man’s spirit is “like the wind is invisible and immaterial” [W.E.Vine]. It’s the most important part, by which man perceives, reflects, feels, desires. “For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God” [1 Cor.2.11]. So you NEED GOD'S SPIRIT to understand God's THOUGHTS! Don't ignore this.
>>2. Q. If you have eternal life now why does the apostle call it a HOPE? Rom.8.24 For we are saved by THE Hope: but Hope that is seen is not Hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?<<
Read carefully the Living Bible – Now that we are saved, we eagerly look forward to this freedom. For if you already have something, you don’t need to hope for it.
Christians were saved in this attitude of hope, but did not receive all the benefits of salvation at the moment of conversion. They look forward to final deliverance from sin, suffering and death. If they already had these blessings, they wouldn’t hope for them. They only hope for what is in the future. A hope for deliverance from the presence of sin and its results is based on God's promises. Its certain as if already received, so they 'eagerly wait for it with perseverance'.
>> Acts26.6 And now I stand and am judged for THE HOPE of the PROMISE MADE OF GOD UNTO OUR FATHERS, UNTO WHICH PROMISE THE TWELVE TRIBES (of Israel)....HOPE TO COME Who were the fathers? Acts 28.20 ..for THE HOPE OF ISRAEL I aam bound with this chain. (this was the apostle)!<<
The message Repent for the Kingdom of God was only to the Jews (tribes of Israel) their 'fathers'. The kingdom was their hope, God's promise to them. The message of the Christian Church is not the Kingdom but the Gospel message Act 2:36-39. How clear can Acts 4:12 be? Its not the old message known to the OT Hebrews, but the message of salvation and grace through Christ's death and resurrection. The Jews rejected Christ and His message that the King had arrived. The Kingdom would NOT now be set-up immediately. Jesus gave the disciples the NEW message for all the nations [Mt.28:19]. The nation Israel [that is some Jews] expected Christ to set up His earthly kingdom, instead they crucified Him. His disciples had to figure-out what that meant. Jesus instructed about a New Covenant and a change in God's plan. So like I said, Christadelphian's ignore the gospel of grace and forgiveness of sins; and instead major on the kingdom message and only hope all will be well.
John Thomas focused on the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom and ignored the Gospel of the Grace of God [Ac.20:24]. He spent a life-time focused on one and missed the other.
>>3.Q. If you have gaurunteed eternal life why then the judgment seat taught by Christ, the apostles and prophets? Jhn. 3.27-29 And hath given him (the Lord) authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of Man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 2Cor.5.10 For we must all (the believers) appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done whether iit be good or bad. Rom.14.10 ...for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.<<
Yes believers are judged and rewarded for their work, service and the life they lived. But that is not to determine if they will be saved. It is called the Bema Judgment seat, not the same as the judgment of unbelievers.
At this Bema Judgement Seat believers are to be made manifest, that each may “receive the things done in (or through) the body,” according to what he has done, “whether it be good or bad.” There they will receive rewards for their faithfulness to the Lord. For all that has been contrary in their lives to His will they will suffer loss, 1 Cor. 3:15. This judgment seat is to be distinguished from the premillennial, earthly throne of Christ, Matt. 25:31, and the postmillennial “Great White Throne,” Rev. 20:11, at which only “the dead” will appear. (Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W. (1996). Vine's complete expository dictionary of OT and NT words (Vol. 2, P. 338). Nashville: T. Nelson.). Your eternal state is determined here and now. He that believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life (Jn.5:24).
>>4. Q. if heaven is the reward of the righteous as you claim why does the Lord teach that he will return to the earth to establish his Kingdom? Acts 1.11 ..Ye men of Galilee (the apostles),why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him so into heaven.<<
Christians have long taught Christ's return to the earth for His people Israel. God is not finished with the nation Israel (Rom.11:1 7-12). They will enjoy the kingdom God promised. It will last for a thousand years on earth. Throughout the bible Israel is promised an earthly reward. But God's church is promised a heavenly reward. We must distinguish between Israel and the church in the bible. There are differences, they are not the same.
>>5. Q. If the Gospel is the good news that Heaven is the reward of those who have salvation in Jesus Christ, as you claim, then why does Paul say that the gospel was preached to Abraham referring to the promises that God made to Abraham (Gal.3.8). (Read Gen.12-17) Why does Paul call Abraham the father of the faithful and say he is HEIR OF THE WORLD (Rom..4.12,13).<<
Although its good news Christ will return and set up the kingdom for Israel in a coming day, it's NOT the Good News of the gospel, which the church is to take to the world. The Jews hoped Christ would rescue them "from the hand of (their) enemies" [Luke 1:74] and setup the kingdom. But that was not the good news of God's grace. Christ's first coming was "to give knowledge of salvation...by the remission of...sins" [Lk.1:77]. The Gospel is the good news Christ died for sin and offers 'whosoever will' the free gift of remission of sin. God offers a pardon to those who repent and accept God's work on the cross on their behalf as the atoning sacrifice. So Jesus said, unless you are born again you won't even 'see the kingdom of God'.
In Rom.4:13 Paul is saying the free gift of God's grace was given to the whole world "not because Abraham obeyed God's law [works mixed with faith], but because he "trusted God [faith alone] to keep his promises" [LB]. So Christadelphians can work all they like, they won't be given any reward from God.
Abraham's experience was one of faith [Gal.3:6-7] the message of the kingdom relates to the law and Israel [not of faith Gal.3:12]. The kingdom agreement depended Israel's covenant keeping and receiving the Messiah [Rom.10:21]. The Good News of the new agreement is that all nations can enjoy God's unconditional love. Jesus will one day establish the kingdom but the Church needs to proclaim the Gospel of John 3:16.
>>WHY DOES THE APOCLAYPSE PROMISE POWER OVER THE NATIONS to him that overcometh? (Rev.2.26) and that Christ will rule them (the nations) with a rod of iron. Why in the Song of the redeemed do the Redeemed sing And hast made us kings and priests; and we shall reign ON THE EARTH. (REV.5.10).<<
The over-comer in Thyatira was the true believer who steadfastly maintained the works of genuine Christianity. His reward would be to reign with Christ during the Millennium. He would have authority over the nations and would rule them. Their home is with the Lord', not on the earth to be ruled over [Eph.2:19 Phil. 3:20LB 2 Cor.5:1 Jn.14:2. Phil.1:23]. They rule with Christ over the earth. In Revelation 5.10 the Greek reads, basileian iereiv, a kingdom and priests; i.e. a kingdom of priests, or a royal priesthood. Two of the highest dignities that can possibly exist among men, to show the glorious state of God's children.
And the “over-comers”? John says, “everyone born of God overcomes the world.” [See 1 Jn.2:13-14]. One does not overcome Satan with human strength and earn salvation. They overcome by ‘the blood of the Lamb’, not by a life long effort of what Christadelphians call ‘faith and works’.
>>6. If Faith cometh by the Holy Spirit as you claim why does Paul teach that it comes by hearing the Word of God So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.<<
Did I write 'faith comes by the Holy Spirit'? Where did I write that?
>>Why does he also say to Timothy that the Holy scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation? (2 Tim.3.15).<<
When Paul said ‘wise unto salvation’ he was referring to the OT Jewish Scriptures. The Jews, although they knew the Scriptures were not wise to salvation. Because they did not believe Jesus was the Way and Truth and the Life. Instead they (like Christadelphians) followed a system of laws and religion to earn and work their way to God. If Jesus said to them, you must be born again, they (like Christadelphians) would not listen.
>>All these scriptures contradict your claims and those of popular Christendom, however sincerely held,and reduce them to absurdity.<<
All these scriptures indicate what I said was true. The indwelling Holy Spirit is the continual experience of those born-again (Eph5:18 Ph.1:11).Jesus said, the Spirit of truth...he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you (Jn.14:17).If He is the Great Teacher and Interpreter (Jn.14:26 15:26 16:13-15) Jesus said when the Spirit would “come he will guide you into all truth” (Jn.16:13). John Thomas reduced scripture to an absurdity and now Christadelphians are missing out. ‘The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children (Rom 8:16). How can you ignore the Holy Spirit and be obedient to God? (Isa.63:10).
>>A sincere lie is still a lie. The teachings od the churches are pious fiction, the strong delusion spoken of by the apostle that would take hold even in the first Century for the time would come when they would not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts heap to themselves teachers having itching ears. (2Tim.4.3, 2Thess.2.10,11). Benaiah<<
These words best apply to the many false cults today who blindly follow their leaders (men who have lied). I have not promoted the teaching of any church denomination to you, or lied but just used scripture. You have not explained ANY verse I mentioned or shown any verse I quoted to be 'pious fiction'. You are a clone of John Thomas (who struggled to find followers). You must be hostile to God's people, unregenerate, without God's Spirit, ignore the bible, and promote Christadelphian teachings or they will kick you out.
You need to repent, and be convicted of the need for Jesus to become Lord of your life, the step to salvation is confession. Please pray –
Lord Jesus Christ I believe you are the Son of God and that you are Lord. I thank you that you have died for me and that through your blood I can be set free from my sin and be washed clean. Lord I confess that I am a sinner and need you to wash away my sin. Please forgive me and accept me into the family of God. I renounce all of the works of Satan and His kingdom of Darkness. I want you Lord Jesus to take over my life and I ask you to baptise me with the Holy Spirit. Lord Jesus with my lips, I confess that you are Lord and I invite you into my life now. Amen.
Let me know if you ever pray this prayer. And feel free to pass this on to other Christadelphians and Mr Smith.