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Hi Robert & Mark W.

Thanks for the mail Robert.

The whole thing about aliens seems so ridiculous to me. I'm surprised you two are fooled. I remember claims aliens looked like 'bird-men'. And other reports said 'no' like 'lizard-men', and others said 'tree-men'. If this is what we are going to find on other planets I'm happy to stay home. What happened to the 'little green men from Mars'? So what do they look like? Anything the imagination dreams up. And that's where they really come from. Robert wrote,

>>Its a difficult thing to make accurate statements about someone else's faith without knowing every aspect of that faith.<<

But we can "make accurate statements about" biblical 'faith' (Heb.11:1-40 James 2:14). There are aspects of faith we know. The bible reveals the difference between true and false faith. We know the real from the fake. Since we know we can test any claim by the bible. One who has 'real faith' doesn't say, believe, or think like you.

>>Also, defining a 'genuine' Christian could be equally difficult. What is a genuine Christian? Is is someone who has a relationship with god, or follows the commandmants or acts in the right 'spirit'?<<

Defining a
'genuine Christian' is easy when using the bible. Even if one thinks they are genuine, but are not. Eg, let me test you. How did you become a Christian? Because the bible is reveals there is only one way.

We are all born physically into this world, & have earthly parents. But "Jesus said, You must be born again… Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit" (Jn.3:6-7). First of all one must realize they are unholy before God (Rom.3:23 6:23 Heb.9:27 Isa.53:6) and can't save themselves from God anger against sin (Pro.14:12 Eph.2:8-9 Acts 4:12). Then realize, God has provided salvation as a free gift by the blood of Jesus who died on the cross to wash away sin (1 Thes.5:9-10 Isa.53:6) Eg John 3:16 -

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that who ever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

One must humbly acknowledge their need and seek God's help (A proud man refuses to be saved). But the Holy Spirit convicts of sin (Jn.16:8-13). In prayer a person confesses their helpless state to God, asking for forgiveness, and inviting Christ into our heart, to live for Him. (Jn.1:12-13)

With this personal prayer, what happens is called a 'new birth'. One is washed clean from sin. God Himself (the Holy Spirit) indwells the person and they become God's child (a genuine Christian). Some might come to God with tears. Some experience amazing peace - some joy. Some might have questions.

As they feed on spiritual food (church fellowship, bible-reading, prayer, sharing their faith) they grow. As their relationship with God develops. His existence, reality, power, Person, love, care, guidance, etc., all become more real. Then alien ideas seem silly, because Jesus (as God in the flesh) comes to earth to save mankind, not to die for aliens. And you know the whole purpose of creation is focused on the human race on earth.

>>Saying that "I have nothing to do with church" is very presumptious. As I'm not into ignorance, I have been to church on a few occasions (by my own choice, not dragged there as a child). I've had many positive experiences. In general the people were very kind and had the basis of a solid community happening, which is very positive for our society. It just offered me no scientific proof. (I'd like to have proof to be able to help everyone know for sure).<<

There are many books with 'scientific proof'. One is Creation Magazine, free catalogues with it. (PO Box 39005 Howick AKL. ph.09 5374818. creation-science@xtra.co.nz. About $35 per year, and worth it. Excellent articles by Ph.D experts on evolution, fossils, history, mysteries, science, stars, UFO's, and the latest discoveries, etc.

>>There are animals that exist in the ocean we don't know exist yet. In the depths that we find inhospitible, they thrive. Does that mean they don't exist? Of course not. But there's been no pictures or other evidence? Well, thats just because its difficult to do. Easier to photograph the sky? Well, yes it is, but if you've ever taken a picture of an object in the sky with a conventional camera, then you'd remember that its always a dissapointing nondescript blob in the end.<<

But never mind
animals in the oceans, compared to the thousands of alien/UFO claims and the millions of people on earth, with videos, cell phone cameras, news media and thousands of aircraft flying, what have we? Nothing really convincing. Compared with the thousands of claims we have mainly frauds, blurred pictures and nothing consistent. And the Museums have nothing and the history books have nothing as well. Why base your belief on lack of evidence?

Modern science is not to blame for lack of evidence. The whole alien thing is recent. Never heard of until the last few centuries. Movies and TV have influenced people, and some are so simple they believe them.

Darwin believed evolution would be proven (given time) after the missing transition fossils were found. We still haven't found them. You are saying the same. That tomorrow's science will find the evidence. It won't.

>>Now then there's influence. Most governments and most people have adopted a policy of ridicule when dealing with UFOs. Personally I don't think this is the best environment to create to find the truth, but it sure as hell makes it easier to dismiss. Do you believe the report I linked to is false, or that the witnesses contained are lying? Here's a link to a more reputable source to show the legitimacy of the report, unfortunately their eternal links to the actual report are broken. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/life/aliens/ufos/aliens.shtml?brussels If this source is better, then maybe the content can be scrutinised. The Gendarmerie are very reputable and corroberate the pilot's account.<<

Read what the BCC say? They distance themselves from the UFO story. "The BBC is not responsible for content…." What "explanation" do they link to the story? –

"Elaborate hoaxes: UFO photographs are easily faked using simple computer software. The crafts themselves can also be created using small hot air balloons or ordinary balloons with lights inside them. Some people even make a hobby out of faking UFOs, which other people mistake as alien spacecraft and then photograph. People have gone to great lengths to fake UFOs in the hope that they will be mistaken for alien spacecraft. A group of light aircraft pilots in Hudson Valley, New York, fooled many people by attaching multi-coloured lights to their planes. They flew in formation to give the impression of a huge boomerang-shaped UFO sailing across the sky. Then, by turning off their lights on cue, they made it look like the ship had mysteriously disappeared."

They don't take it seriously, nor me, and also the idea of secret US Government cover-ups (or experiments on aliens) as well. Millions of dollars are spent listening for life 'out there' for ET and nothing is found. If there was ANY hard evidence everybody would pounce on it. Would be the biggest news in earth's history. Consider the media frenzy about 'life in Mars rock' fiasco. To think a much more exciting discovery would be kept secret for decades is way beyond credibility.

>>Who don't we believe here and what are our reason's for doubting them?<<

Obviously you can never be sure about anything. When someone makes up another alien story you have another problem. By your own belief you must also believe in the occult, or basically anything. You have no authority to guide you into what's true. Another alien story comes along and you can't deny it, or known anything for sure.

In that state, you can never have any certainty. That's not for me. What I have is real, not uncertain. The fact is, "90% of UFO reports turn out to be humbug, but there is a residual 10% which are not easy to dismiss" (Hallo Erdling 'Ufologie' Focus 45:254 Nov.6 1995). Sociologist Gerald Ederlein said, "research has shown that people who are not affiliated with any church, but who claim that they are religious, are particularly susceptible to the possible existence of extra-terrestrials. For them UFOlogy is a substitute religion" (p.252).

>>I base my belief on what I know most of, not what I don't know. I just acknowledge when I don't have irrefutable evidence….<<

To me this is a contradiction and proves my point. Your belief base is "
acknowledge" you "don't have", what we call "…evidence".

>>As evolution is flawed, I'm inclined to see a theory that goes more like, if god created us here, who did he create there?<<

There's no life created out there (ie aliens). None proven and no evidence either. And if people see something (UFO's) and can't explain it, some one will always have another explanation. There can be many explanations, all different. But you can't base what you believe on stories, or interpretations of stories. And how do you know those unexplainable reports aren't someone using deception?

I'll conclude with 3 points.

(1) UFO reports, by definition, remain nebulous and not identifiable (the basis of your belief).
(2) People who do not know Christ are easily fascinated by all sorts of phenomena which are difficult to explain. For Christians there is Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:4 to "Take heed that no man deceive you".
(3) The best answer to deception? Paul exhorts Christians in 2 Tim.2:15 to study the Scripture, so we might be 'rightly dividing the word of truth'.

Regards,
Mark P


Hi Robert,

Thanks for your latest.

As I said, we can make accurate statements about biblical 'faith' (Heb.11:1-40 James 2:14). The bible reveals the difference between true and false faith. We can test any claim to faith by the bible. You replied,

>>Once again, judgements without evidence are fraught with danger.<<

Hence we based belief on the bible not our ideas. Real faith has real evidence. Many claim to be 'Christian' but lack evidence. "What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? (Jas.2:14). Ie, a genuine Christian displays a biblical pattern, or we have a right to question and make '
judgments' on their lack of 'evidence'.

I explained how a person becomes a Christian. Via., the 'new birth' which happens in response to the good news. You replied,

>>See this makes it easy to show that I am a Christian. I do this frequently. I probably talk to Jesus more than I do to people around me. It concerns me that you seem to want to label me an un-christian so much, but I presume this is just because you are so used to defending your position.<<

(But apparently Jesus doesn't talk much to you) Perhaps you missed what I said. The 'new birth' is a 'one off event' whereby one becomes a Christian. I still remember the time and place I was born into God's family. I'm not labeling you, but simply saying 'true faith' starts with this birth - according to the bible. If you were 'born again', you would be happy to say so, instead of
'defending your' claim only to faith.

>>I know I have sinned, I know that have been weak, I know that I have not done everything that God would have liked me to do for myself, but I keep trying. I appreciate the fact that Jesus loves me and I love him, he has done so much for everyone, including me and you. I act daily in a kind and considerate way in order to help create the kind of world I think Jesus would like.<<

And I appreciate your good intentions, very noble. But if you haven't been born into God's family via the new birth good intentions aren't worth much. Even the best life long deeds won't get anyone into heaven without saving faith. "Not every one that says to me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven….Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not do many mighty works in your name? And I will reply I never knew you: depart from me…" (Mt.7:21-23). I'm not trying to get under your skin, but make you think.

A life of good intentions without the washing of the rebirth means one is not saved. Christianity is all about the gift - God provided salvation. The world thinks Christianity is all about working for the prize of salvation [it's the other way around].

A real Christian has God's Word as the authority in all matters of practice and belief. This says - "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching" (Heb.10:25). Se we will "
subscribe to" the gathering together. Any who know Christ as Saviour, happily meet with other Christians and know the bible has "enough evidence to suggest that extra-terrestrials" don't exist. So when Jesus warns "Take heed that no man deceive you" we won't reply –

>>I investigate phenomena in the interest of knowledge and understanding. God does not wish me to be ignorant.<<

If you really believe "
God does not wish" you "to be ignorant" you would allow the light of God's Word to shine in your life. True, God does not want you to be 'ignorant', so spend time 'investigating' the bible in the interests of sound 'knowledge and understanding'. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" (Rom.10:17). Base your belief on the bible, not the stories of men.

I questioned your 'faith' because you lack "the mind of Christ" (1 Cor.2:16) or know the bible. If you really knew God, in a personal way, the subject of aliens/spaceships would be down the list of importance. And without God's Spirit in your heart, it would explain why you don't "
understand" what 2 Tim.2:15 means. Because -

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor 2:14).

A genuine Christian, who has God's Spirit, doesn't need me to quote the bible because God's Spirit reveals God's mind and what the bible says. So I said, UFO reports, by definition, remain nebulous and unidentifiable (the basis of your belief) you replied -

>>I think you're still coming to terms with what my beliefs are.<<

I knew your beliefs at the start. I'm not running you down, just trying to get you to think. Whatever, your decisions in life, committing yourself to the Lord is not something to put-off "Behold now is the accepted time, now is the day of salvation" (2 Cor.6:2).

You must come to terms with a fork in the road. Two ways you can go. Follow the world and all it offers, or follow Jesus and His Word.

Regards
Mark P


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