Want Some Answers ???Evolutionism
Hi Mark W,
Thanks for your latest.
>>Apologies for the delay. I have just returned from holiday.<<
Did you 'beam down'? I'm still waiting for that spaceship ride. Just think, it would be the ultimate proof. The fact is we have had no contact with your friends, because they aren't there. And 'vast distances'?
>>One only has to have foresight to realise that we will overcome these 'vast distances' by improving our technology and using alternative energy sources in the near future. We have discovered radio waves / microwaves etc- and it is highly likely that we will discover many other waves – some which travel faster than the speed of light. Impossible? Our scientists have already discovered particles that travel FASTER than the speed of light. Einstein postulated that the speed of light was an absolute but this has now been superseded. Therefore we should never say that something is impossible.<<
(1) There are no "particles that travel FASTER than the speed of light". Light speed has not "been superseded" so I can say it "is impossible". Offer the proof of your boast.
(2) The hope of future speedy space travel doesn't remove the distance problem. Closest star is 4.3 light years away. Even at double light speed it takes over 2 years. What silly alien is going to sit boxed-up in his saucer for 2 years? Yet (since they started making alien movies) there's thousands of UFO sightings (in the West World).
(3) Estimated 100,000 dust particles every space cubic Kilometre. One particle strike at just half light speed would destroy a space ship.
And alien visits mentioned in the bible? It teaches life is only possible through creation.
>>There are numerous references in the Bible and other ancient texts to the creation of life, of ‘alien’ visits- beings coming from the sky in their ‘fiery chariots’ and ‘flying horses.’ (The word, ‘Elohim’ was later replaced by the singular ‘God.’ )These beings are described as human like, they even cohabitated with human beings and had offspring together. (since we have similar DNA and were created in ‘their image.’) ‘When men began to multiply on Earth, and daughters were born unto them, the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men were beautiful and they took them as wives of all they had chosen. – Genesis 6:2.<<
But you don't believe scripture. Why quote it if it's untrustworthy? You're said many times it's unbelievable. If I take it as true, (as you want) why can't you believe the other parts of Genesis where God created the heavens and the earth? Look how the word is used –
ELOHIM SAYS, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid.... Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any". (Isa.44:8)
And Gen.6:2 isn't aliens. You're reading into it something not there. "Sons of God" might refer to angels (Job 1:6) which God created (Psa. 148:2,5 Col.1:6) Christians (1 Jn.3:1) or sons of Seth. Even Adam and Jesus are called 'sons of God (Lk.3:38 Jn.3:4). If you quote the bible, interpret it correctly. And stars were created, for signs, seasons, days and years, not alien life (Gen.1:14).
>>The Elohim are also ‘men’ and ‘women’ as we are, although it is quite fashionable to use the word, ‘Alien.’ Remember of course, that we are also ‘aliens’ to any visitors coming from another world. :) These beings taught primitive man to use calendars, predict the lunar phases, harvest crops etc.<<
Again you are reading into Elohim something not there. Why insist on stating your belief and ignoring my comment? Why answer email if you ignore it, and restate your belief? Twice you've done this. Trying to waste time? Why not engage in a logical debate, instead restating the same dogma?
No biblical scholar says "Elohim" means "those who came from the sky". "Elohim" is the plural of El but no translator used it as you say. As scholars confirm - "Elohim is the plural form of El, but it is usually translated in the singular. Some scholars have held that the plural represents an intensified form for the supreme God; others believe it describes the supreme God and His heavenly court of created beings. Still others hold that the plural form refers to the triune God of Genesis 1:13, who works through Word and Spirit in the creation of the world. All agree that the plural form Elohim does convey the sense of the one supreme being who is the only true God." Hayford's Bible Handbook. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publ. (1995).
I gave evidence suggesting the universe is NOT billions of years old. Aliens could not have travelled or advanced scientifically. You reply,
>>It has therefore taken approx 13,000 years for our own humanity to reach the age of science, of understanding or the ‘age of Apocalypse’ as referred to in the Bible. (which means ‘Revelation’ in Greek) We can therefore easily understand how it is possible for a humanity that is 25,000 years in advance of our own to be able to travel in space and create life.<<
Those dates are assumption, without evidence. The bible reveals human history is no longer than 7,000 years (not even 10,000). And the stars were created on day four (Gen.1:16). So they are younger than the earth that cancels out your idea.
>>It is also equally understandable how these human beings coming from another planet and who performed ‘miraculous’ feats, were mistaken by our primitive ancestors as ‘God’ or ‘Gods’ <<
There is nothing understandable about that. You must answer objections and prove it plausible first. And there was nothing "primitive" about those in early Genesis. God created mankind fully formed and intelligent. Eg., Adam could named all the animals (Gen.2:19-20). His children were skilled musicians and craftsmen (Gen.4:21-22). Built cities and planted gardens (Gen.4:2 4:17).
>>The idea of a supernatural God creating the universe and the infinite life it contains, is a fairy tale for me. (As is the idea that all life evolved and was derived from non living matter.)<<
You believe anything, but what the bible clearly says. And think others must only believe the parts of the bible you specify. Creation is far beyond the work of aliens, regardless how clever you think they are. Any creator must have had all knowledge (of past and future) and all power (over matter, space, time).
>>The idea of advanced human scientists coming from another planet….is the most plausible. This is based on what we do know, not what we don't.<<
This staggers belief. How you can say this and expect me to believe it? Your ideas are 'based' on a fictional world where you select what you want to believe, rejecting what you don't like.
>>our scientists are beginning to manipulate DNA and even create life from scratch. This is not science fiction. (And when this is done and we begin creating more and more complex life, the belief in 'God' will be questioned and eventually disappear)…. Creation of life- absolutely. This is not a natural occurrence. That is the work of scientists and artists working together.<<
All it will prove is it takes a huge amount of information, knowledge and skill to create life (God). Could men ever do what God did - create something from nothing? He created solar systems from nothing. There are no large piles of dust out there waiting to form solar systems.
>>It is also based on what we know as we can find evidence in ancient texts- visitations from people coming from the stars who sent messengers and who started the various religions.<<
Based on nonsense. Your so called "ancient visitations" are defined, and detailed by you with no proof and uncertainty. I can't base belief on imagination that would be on the unknown.
>>Do you believe that it might be possible to understand the true nature of this 'God' you purport to believe in?<<
Yes "For ever since the creation of the world his (God's) invisible qualities both His eternal power and His Divine nature have been clearly seen, they are perceived in the things he has made." (Rom.1:20).
"God that made the world and all things, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made with hands; neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life, and breath, and all things… he is not far from each one of us… we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked; but now he commands all men everywhere to repent: for he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man who he has chosen and given assurance to all, by raising him from the dead." (Acts 17:24-31)
>>That in fact, he (or why not ‘she’) might be as real as you and I- that in fact we are 'gods' ourselves. "On the day that you eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods."<<
When you select bible verses to fit aliens into the bible, you ignore verses describing God. So obviously you have no idea what God is like. You should consider evidence, for and against. Verses contrary to your view.
When the devil attempted Eve, was it good Eve disobeyed God? No! The bible says life on earth was created "very good" (Gen.1:13). But our human parents rebelled and sin entered the world - death and suffering pasted on to all. Now, the Law of Decay is rampant. Creatures die out, the effects of the curse are everywhere (Gen.3:17-19). This makes sense; do alien legends have a better answer for suffering and death on earth? No!
And as I said, last time. The bible tells us who the designer is, what's He's like, why He made life. This answers questions about who I am - right and wrong - life after death, and why there is suffering and death. You have no answers, and the universe?
>>The universe is INFINITE- it has no centre, no beginning and no end. Therefore, there with no beginning, there is no ‘big bang’ from which everything resulted - the matter that has existed will always exist in the form of energy or matter. 'Matter and energy are eternally one' (The Tibetan Book of the Dead.)
Just because we don't know its dimensions doesn't mean its eternal time-wise. It's an indefensible position that matter exists eternally. Or came into existence by itself for no reason and then by itself arranged itself into compounds, substance, laws, and information systems. That is against everything observed in real science. More likely a being with infinite intelligence created all things, that's agreeable with real science. Is "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" the level of your scientific evidence?
>>The universe was not CREATED – it always was and always will be. Evidently this concept of infinity in time and space can be difficult to grasp….<<
Who do I believe? "In the beginning God CREATED the heavens and the earth." (Gen.1:1). And "Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of your hands" (Heb.1:10). "...thus says the LORD that CREATED the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." (Isa.45:18).
So here "we can find evidence in ancient texts" easy to 'grasp'. Stars had a beginning. Man knows of nothing without a cause. The scientific laws of cause and effect demand a beginning.
We WANT to make SENSE of what we see around us and ask: What is the nature of the universe? What is OUR place in it and where did it and WE come from? WHY is it the way it is? You have NO ANSWERS. Isaac Newton possibly the greatest physicist of all time firmly believed the solar system was created by God. Do you know more than he?
So who created aliens? More aliens? Who created them? Sooner or later you must face the fact you have no answer to where life (or matter) came from. You reply,
>>Man was created – and the only example of a creative intelligence we have is man himself. Where did human beings come from? We were created by other intelligent beings, who in turn were created and so on - and we too will go on to create life on other planets (providing we do not self destroy) This is the infinite chain of life. Therefore there was no first humanity as humanity has always existed.<<
So humanity is creator and God. If mankind are gods then there is no God. No ultimate right or wrong, nothing absolutely certain. You define God out of existence. In this context the word God has no meaning. When anything and everything means the same thing nothing means anything. You drag God down to our level and exalt man up to God's level. And so you turn within to the source of your emptiness. The bible is correct "…they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." (Rom.1:25).
>>This concept of Infinity was taught to Buddha and many other prophets. Buddhism is an atheistic religion – there is no ‘God’ -only principles of self development/ awareness and harmony.<<
Where is the 'harmony' in Buddhism? - "The answer to every problem is that there is no problem. Let everyman perceive this truth and he is without problems". I this 'self-development' without 'problems'? So you follow New Age religion. They have no leader, no definite doctrine, and no headquarters and give up rational realism for mystical idealism. You have your own custom made religion that draws its ideas from any religion and mixes them all together. You can make up what you believe and believe what you want.
>>Morals are simply ways of living deemed suitable to the individual. Religious interpretation & political agendas have distorted many of the original teachings of the prophets. Today, more than ever, we need a new type of spirituality. Everything is permitted, as long as we keep to the fundamental ‘laws’ - absolute respect for life -for oneself and for others.<<
A double contradiction!! How can there be any "absolutes" without an Absolute God? If there are 'absolutes' then there is a God. After you realise the foolishness of your relative ethics you run for cover because without 'absolutes' there is no 'suitable' base to stand on.
The other contradiction:- "Everything is permitted as long as.." it's based on absolutes. How can 'everything' be 'permitted' when everything must be subjected to absolutes? And what "fundamental laws" are you taking about? The Ten Commandments? That sounds hypocritical. You deny God exist but want His Law's to control everyone. You need to seriously think about what you believe.
>>Laws of Nature Natural order /physics can be explained by the physical laws of the universe which are shown to harmonious and produce symmetrical patterns. But let's say that there is a natural order that cannot be explained just by universal (natural) laws. If it was designed, it doesn't have to be by a supernatural being…. As before, we can easily imagine very advanced humanities creating solar systems, galaxies... why not? There is no limit to what human intelligence can do.<<
Read what you say - "lets say … if… if we can prove… imagine... why not?." It's unbelievable because it's based on imagination and no rational basis for it. Your "symmetrical patterns" are not science.
You fell for the devils lie, he said to Eve "you shall be as god's". This belief is yours, that man's destiny and salvation are within himself. You find the old lie satisfying. You won't stand for what's true, so you fall for any lie. You exalt man into the place of God and it gives you a false sense of security. You are living in an delusion.
>>This is ALL ABOUT understanding. I am only one of thousands, including scientists and philosophers- who have come to the same conclusion about our origins. In the search for truth it is important to start with a ‘blank slate.’ If you are predisposed to believing in ‘God’ – for whatever reason, it is very easy to find ‘answers’ that conform to your already established model.<<
Buddha also said, "Do not go by reasoning, nor by inferring, nor by argument". In other words start "with a blank slate" and get your "understanding" from me. I call that 'model', brainwashing and simple mindedness. Far more 'scientists and philosophers' conclude the bible has the best answer 'about our origins', not UFO's.
>>10 years ago, I also believed in God. This is what my parents had taught me from a young age and therefore I trusted they had all the answers. It seemed obvious and almost futile to think otherwise. Then I decided I would do my own research to prove the existence of God. 10 years later, and thousands of hours of researching scientific journals / ancient texts, legends etc. In a nutshell, my conclusion is that ‘it wasn’t God, but ‘gods.’ (human beings from another planet.)<<
One does not seek God's existence by "hours of researching scientific journals and ancient texts, and legends". If so, no one could ever come to know God.
"Jesus said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also" (Jn.1:6-7). I found in the new birth what you CAN NEVER find in " journals legends and science". I met God personally and have the knowledge and assurance unattainable in unbelief. You say,
>>I encourage you to explore another religions/ philosophies/ teachings – especially from the East<<
Why should I look for answers when having them already? I walk and talk with God. Do you walk and talk with aliens? I don't find Alien 'belief' creditable. Because God has revealed everything we need to know about the most important issue - that is, how we can be made right with Him and receive eternal life.