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Mormon Index

Hi Jeremiah

Thanks for your comment. I’m not sure if you asked for a reply, and some of your questions appear as statements. But I won't be rude by ignoring your mail. I’ll comment on some of it.

(1) Mormons won't tell you their Prophet, Joseph Smith Jnr., was heavily involved in the Occult, Spiritism and Freemasonry when he founded Mormonism. To this you wrote,

>>How can we know this to be true? It is said that Smith was kicked out of the Methodist Church, in 1830!!!, for some reason that might have been "occultic"?<<

Smith was attracted towards Methodism and thought about joining in 1820 but that year (his first vision, he was “14 years old”) an 'angel' told him not to join any, they were all false. It was in “1830” that the Book of Mormon (BoM) was published and he started his new religion.

Smith as a man influenced by folk magic and occultism” (‘Time’ May 20 1985 Article – Challenging Mormonism Roots, - Newly found letters raise questions about the church’s origins). Some of the occult legacy Smith gave LDS is the mysterious markings on the scared underwear that Mormons wear for protection against spiritual powers. The magical spectacles he used, mysterious writings and disappearing evidence etc., tell the same story. He spent much of his time digging up imaginary buried treasure with his father and brother (The Teachings of Mormonism J.H.Gerstner. Kingdom of the Cults. W.Martin). They used ‘peep stones’ (magical rocks that allegedly reveal lost items or buried treasure) and ‘divining rods’ (sticks to find water or treasure). Smith came to regret these things and denied them, although the evidence is undeniable. He was a peep stone addict and claimed supernatural powers which helped him on treasure hunts. He also claimed to have certain keys by which he could discern things invisible to the natural eye (Linn ‘The Story of the Mormons’ pg.16). In fact, all the Smith family displayed a knack for the occult. His mum was a 'psychic'.

(2) Mormons won't tell you that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world" a practice repeatedly forbidden in the Bible. To this you wrote,

>>I know that they believe in Baptism for the dead, and one article tried to use almost all of Church history (non-LDS) to prove it. I did not know that they believed or practiced or encouraged (how?) visitations from dead relatives. like the Catholics do they pray to the dead?<<

You’re correct; some Mormon beliefs are similar to Catholic. But at least Catholics can trace their history back to the apostles; the BoM has no real history. Yes LDS believe certain ordinances (baptism marriage) must be preformed on behalf of the dead. The 10th Prophet (LDS church) said, “The greatest command given us and made obligatory is the temple work in our own behalf and in behalf of the dead”. (Doctrines of Salvation. Vol.2 pg149). So some of the activity in Mormon Temples is work done in behalf of the dead. As Smith said: "The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg.356). This explains why many Mormons are attempting to save their dead relatives. Because of the close association that Temple Mormons have with the dead many claim to actually have contact with them. LDS President Woodruff said, “Two weeks before I left St George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them.” (Journal of Discourses vol.19 pg.229).

(16) Mormons won't tell you that the three witnesses (Cowdery, Whitmer & Harris) claimed by Joseph Smith to have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was alleged to have been translated, all left the Mormon Church and each later testified publicly none of them ever saw the gold plates. To this you wrote,

>>This same website says that even though these men left the church they never denied their testimonies *sigh* this is so hard, this studying of Mormonism, for it seems to be a U.S. history lesson with an opened bible.<<

(Not this website) But they never saw the plates and they all left the movement. But who would ever loudly proclaim, “Ok we tell lies”? Harris changed his religion 8 times [going around in circles] and finally insisting there was far more truth in Shakerism than Mormonism. 'Studying the opened Bible' puts an end to Mormonism. And there’s so many documents and historical literature Mormons hide, obviously their people find the truth 'hard' to accept.

Cowdery also accused Smith of adultery (later proven), lying and teaching false doctrines. You ask,

>>What lying and which false doctrine(s)?<<

What? Smith never lied? (BoM?) The details of Oliver Cowdery (OC) accusing Smith of “teaching false doctrines” are found in a “Private Letter to Brother Warren Cowdery by OC Jan.21 1838”. This also mentions about Smith lying. So Smith accused OC of trying to ‘raise up the kingdom again’, stealing, lying, perjury, counterfeiting, adultery and a leader of a gang of ‘scoundrels’ (The Mormon Frontiers Diary of Hosea Stout vol.2 pg.336 See also Senate Doc. 189 Feb.15 1841 pg.6-9 Comprehensive History of the Church B.H Roberts vol.1 pg.438,439).

OC denied the BoM and publicly confessed shame and sorrow for his connection with Mormonism (Times and Seasons vol.2 pg.482). Whitmer called Smith a “dumb beast to ride” and “an ass to bray out cursing instead of blessings” (History of the Church vol.3 pg.228). There exists no contemporary pro-Mormon statements from reliable and informed sources who knew the Smith family and Joseph intimately.

Smith accused all three of being "thieves and counterfeiters." If Smith were right, why do these three still have their names printed at the beginning of every Book of Mormon, even today? You wrote,

>>The LDS will say, "because their testimonies were true despite what they said or did later. They never denied their testimonies!"<<

But why don’t Mormons listen to Smith (JS) God’s prophet? He claimed they were the worse sinners alive and yet Mormons ignore JS. If Jesus had rejected the Apostle Peter as a liar and sinner, would Peter’s Epistles be in the NT? Not likely! In the BoM they say “that we… have seen the plates…. the engravings… laid before our eyes” But Harris latter said he only saw “the plates by the eyes of faith and not with the natural eyes” (Gleanings by the Way J.A Clark pg.256-7) which should eliminate him as a witness. It said also Cowdery never saw the plates [Plates that weighted 200 pounds and JS ran miles with them under his arm]. The other witnesses, 8 out of the 11 apostatized from the church! If 10 of the 12 disciples apostatized after the resurrection that would have been the end to the Bible’s creditability. But the disciples died for the True Witness, while the Mormon witnesses gave up the fraud.

The obvious proof of the genuineness of the BoM is not the three (or the 11) witnesses to the plates but it would be archaeological research with vast amounts of finds. But nothing of any kind has happened. Mormonism has yet to explain the fact that archaeological researchers have not only repudiated the claims of the BoM relating to the so-called civilisations but have found no evidence of the accounts in the BoM. Any conflicts over the witnesses of the gold plate’s, pale into insignificance next to this fact.

(13) Mormons won't tell you that they believe Jesus of Nazareth had three wives - two Mary's and Martha - plus several children while he lived on earth. Since Mormons believe that only married men can become gods, Jesus had to be married to fit into their beliefs. You wrote,

>>Then why didn't Jesus have john look after his (Jesus') children as well? (See John 19:27)<<

Yes and I think vs.26 indicates Mary is not His wife, “When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son" [Jn 19:26].

FACT 3. Mormons are taught to doubt the reliability of the Bible and their leaders have consistently attacked its accuracy. Joseph Smith claimed: "…it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pg.10). You wrote,

>>Yet there isn't hardly anything in the book of Mormon that we cannot find in the bible.<<

Yes heaps copied from the KJV. But there are many doctrines in Mormonism not in the Bible.

The Bible teaches……..Christ brought an end to the Aaronic priesthood (Heb.5:9 2 Tim.2:2)
The Bible teaches……God is not man (Num.23:19)
The Bible teaches…….salvation is not universal but based on belief of each individual (Rom.1:16 Heb.9:28 Eph.2:8-9)
The Bible teaches…….. no one gets out of hell (Rev.21:8 Mt.13:24-25 47-50 Lk.16:26)
The Bible teaches……..we are spiritually dead until our spiritual rebirth (Jn.3)
The Bible teaches………man has a sinful nature (Rom.8:5-8)
The Bible teaches……..men have not pre-existed (1 Cor.15:46)
The Bible teaches……..born again Christians are God’s true Church (1 Cor.12:12-14 Mt.18:19-20 16:18)
The Bible teaches……..the Gospel is the message of Christ’s death & resurrection as atonement for sin (1 Cor.15:1:4 Gal.1:8)

>>I was going to comment and ask about KJV Onlyism, but I think that this (commenting on your Mormonism article.) is good enough for now. Maybe I will ask about it latter thank you for your time and help. [-Jeremiah]<<

Your welcome to comment. Thanks for your time and comments.

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