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David is chair of the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc

Hi David,

Sorry but did you know the news of your rejection to that debate has gone world wide? Thousands in this country received the news today. Would you like the email news clip?

>>Hello Mark, I don't know if any of the gods have or do exist. As you do know, can you supply the evidence for your particular god’s existence? Don't make me keep asking this very basic question over and over again. I assume you have studied all the other gods and are an Atheist concerning them. No one has produced evidence for their existence as no one has produced evidence for the existence of your particular god.<<

As I wrote, no evidence could ever be accepted by an atheist. He must deny all [and any] evidence by default to maintain unbelief. None can prove anything to a committed unbeliever. No evidence is accepted. But I asked a basic question also (no answer) - Where is the evidence that proves there is no God? Did you say you had none, or don’t know? You are the head of a large organization with no evidence to justly its existence. Atheism is a claim to know something, that there is no God. Where's your evidence?

In order to maintain the premise '
there is no God' you must have total knowledge of all reality. You simply don't know. You talk from ignorance, not conviction and not an atheist. As I say there are good arguments pointing to evidence for God’s existence. Would you like those next time?

>>Au contraire, Mark, I can imagine a god as I can imagine fairies at the bottom of the garden. Imagining doesn’t make reality though. Most of the western world believed in a creator god only a century or so ago. Centuries before that most of the world believed the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around it. Not now though.<<

You mix delusions with reality. Big difference between garden fairies and a Creator God (accepted by millions worldwide for thousands of years). Wild comparisons are not persuasive.

Many still believe in God. Dr. Jenkins, prof of History and Religious Studies [Penn State Univ]. His book, 'The Coming of Global Christianity', says Christianity is sweeping across the southern hemisphere and Asia like a tidal wave. "The scale of Christian growth is almost unimaginable," says within 20 years, two-thirds of all Christians will live in Africa, Latin America or Asia." In the year 1900, there were about 10 million Christians in Africa - about 10% of the population. Today there are 360 million - almost 50% of the population. "The Bible is alive in Africa, and Asia, and Latin America," Jenkins says. "And overwhelmingly, it's the kind of Christianity that is very Bible-centered, that takes the Bible and authority very seriously." In China, there are between 80 and 100 million Christians. And a former Time Magazine correspondent, David Aikman, predicts China will be a Christianized nation within 20 or 30 years. He does not predict a Christian majority, but a China that is 25 to 30% Christian; enough, he says, to change society and government…."

So much for the idea people once believed but ‘
not now though’.

>>Funny, isn’t it that the god you believe exists is the god you were taught to believe exists as a child. Iranian people dispute your god because they were raised believing in another god. I notice you don’t talk of childhood indoctrination ever. Is that because you are a victim of it? I trust reason as reason has shown it works. You are communicating to me through this medium because of reason not because of some iffy idea that a god exists.<<

So you assume to know my childhood with a guess. I made my own decisions in life, not a childhood brainwashing. And your same argument applies to atheism and refutes that as well. If you advocate that you must be prepared to be judged by the same principle. If beliefs are conditioned then the unbeliever is conditioned. But it still doesn't deny God exists.


>>Millions of people believe that UFO’s abduct people. Does that make it true? Who estimated the 10,000 scientist believing in creation? And, as we are not talking science but mythology, does that make it any truer than the beliefs of ufologists. No, it doesn’t.<<

Another wild comparison and unpersuasive. We are not talking about mythology or UFO's but thousands of qualified professional scientists who for scientific reasons believe in a creator God, not atheistic evolution. For them belief in a creator God is not 'mythology' or 'stupid'. Its cold hard real science that speaks with common sense, logic and reason. The fact that evolution is a fraud is the one fact that destroys you whole belief system.

>>Not sure what are the faults of others that govern my life. I tend to think for myself and evaluate on the evidence before me. This is a trait of Atheistic thought, that religious folk should try to emulate. <<

Not sure? You were 'going to be on my case'. You are crusading about
'damage done to humanity by people' like me. And warning 'the wider public' about people like me. The faults of others, govern your life. I'm amazed one can be so occupied with something he doesn’t believe exists.

>>No one, except in the propaganda of the religious, is trying to shut down religion. Our requests are very small. Stop indoctrinating children with stories from our mythological past, as indoctrination into any system works, and keep out of influencing politics using dogma instead of empirical evidence. Teach children the broad picture of humanity and not the cocooned stories of one ancient tribespersons perspective. Teach children how to think and not what to think. Do that and we won’t bother to pick you up on your interfering ways unless you do interfere? If you kept religion as a practice in private between consenting adults, we wouldn’t give you a second thought.<<

In contradiction you say "Don't teach kids, don't talk about it" but you don't want to '
shut down religion'. Why get upset teaching kids, if its all just fairy tales? Does Little Red Ridding Hood make your blood boil?

Primitive tribes have been discovered (untouched by civilization) who believe in the ‘great spirit’. Why? Their intuition is not '
indoctrination' nor without a process of reason or intellect. Millions believe in God, are all brainwashed?

I notice how people in our culture are indoctrinated with belief in an billion year old earth. That's not empirical science. Yet men know intuitively there’s a God and that’s part of their nature from birth. Why? Because men generally worship something or someone or believe in a God or gods. If they don’t find or accept the true God, they can’t satisfy their intuitive knowledge and fill their life with material things that don’t satisfy.

Children are certainly not born with a natural belief in evolution they are '
indoctrinated'. The public education systems brainwash children in that direction, and turn out atheists. The media has had a censorship for years regarding news that doesn't support evolution. Newspapers, magazines and journals are 'indoctrinating' evolutionary dogma.

Why '
indoctrinate' children with stories about theories of evolution which are unscientific? Or condemn people who worship God they know exists? Why stop Christians speaking out? That's typical atheist philosophy. The end result is that people are beaten, jailed, and even killed for what they believe. What is there about God's love for man that, 'He gave His only son to die for their sin so they could live forever' that you don't like?

Atheism robs men of hope, peace and joy. A horrible belief that tells a man on his death-bed 'Your life was for nothing'. You are 'worth nothing'. There is 'no meaning to anything, no hope after death'. Why brainwash people to put their trust in a selfish, blind, soul destroying despair?


>>Does your fantasy “show justice, forgiveness, truth, kindness” to lesbian and gays, to those seeking and needing Voluntary Euthanasia, to those who may benefit from stem-cell research, to children with malleable minds, to women who’s only choice is abortion, to youngsters in their formative years who should know about their sexuality, to those in the science classroom and to a whole host of other things you deny you fellow citizen. No, it does not.<<

How can you believe in right and wrong when nothing to you is really right or wrong? Atheism has no ground for justice, truth and love. These are all just opinion. Can you say there is anything ultimately right or wrong? Name one, please. I'll wait your answer.

And that’s a real culture of death you support. Atheism is a self-centered religion where man becomes god. And man’s self-determination does away with life when it suits. In the end, direct or indirect killing of a human is considered good when justified by personal choice. “The right” has more value than life. ‘The right’ (‘ledensunwertes leden’) becomes nothing more than a killing machine; it’s a slippery slope. But if man is made in God’s “likeness” what a contradiction to atheism and what true sanctity and dignity to life.

>>I hope your next missive talks at length about the indoctrination of children with unproven ideas. Teaching children about heaven and especially about hell, is mental child abuse. But you know that, that is your great fear. Shouldn’t that be stopped? If not, why not. Please concentrate on that next time. Thanks David<<

Amazing how children know there’s a God. People have a right to know about the God of history, morals, truth, love, forgiveness, hope, eternal life, and peace. The big questions of life, to enjoy and learn about God's beautiful creation. Atheism has no answers. Me indoctrinated? I knew God's existence then, as now and knew of fairies and UFO’s but wasn't confused. You have been sold an atheist argument, not the truth.

Showing "
justice, forgiveness, truth, kindness, love" are not “unproven ideas”. Teaching kids about these or about rewards or punishment is not ‘child abuse’. But telling kids they are nothing more than animals is. If not, why not? The theory of evolution is not a proven fact.

If you eliminate God, we are no wiser than animals, but include God, we have value and dignity, life has meaning. Atheism tells kids life has no meaning. No wonder they kill themselves. If we kill spare cats, why not kill spare kids? If they believe they are just pond-scum why not snuff out life now. And so they do.

You cannot enjoy beauty if atheism is true. A field of flowers is the same as a field of dead bodies, man is devalued and truth ignored. Because we're not animals we know the difference. You won’t admit the difference because your erroneous ‘belief’ that there’s no absolutes, beauty, ugliness, or truth. But if truth doesn’t exist, how do I even know you are telling the truth? Can you deny there are truths? Go on tell me. I will await.

And can ANYTHING be known? You cannot say for sure anything is right or wrong. So why assume Christianity wrong and atheism right? One believes life precious; the other believes abortion and euthanasia is good.

Stalin had similar demonstrably false beliefs with important social consequences and millions died. So atheism is a belief as much as any, you can't escape the fact.

Thanks,
Mark


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