Want Some Answers ???


Home
Intro


Hi Phillip, (your emails regarding the Illuminati)

Thanks for your mail. I’m not saying I disagree with everything 'End Time Ministries' preach but I was thinking of ‘Cutting Edge Ministries’ when I replied to you. If you want to believe what David Bay writes you are welcome, but not me. I've read the WEEKLY UPDATES from Cutting Edge Ministries . I accept much of his ministry is scriptural but much of his imagination is fanciful. Eg, let me expound just one newsletter he sent. Regarding the Maryland Shootings (those terrible sniper shootings which occurred in USA).

The whole story Bay put together came from the fact the police had discovered a "Death" Tarot Card at the scene of the Bowie Middle School shooting. And that’s all Bay needed to make up a story. He said the reader would “be amazed at the details which ” he “gleaned from this one fact”. He made up his own story on the shootings. Since they were random killings he made up something to suggest they weren’t. And contrary to the facts, what the police knew, the public statements of police and the press Mr Bay wrote, “you have to seek another pattern……...Because October 2 is the beginning day of the Satanic celebration to the Warrior Queen of Heaven, the Hindu Goddess Kali ” it was all part of a “Satanic holiday devoted to the destruction of the Old Order ” And all the “Shooting forms a Broken Cross…..the shooter was making a very clear symbol on the ground….since these attacks began on the first day of the celebration of Kali ”.


The two killers were caught, their crimes had nothing to do with what Bay said. Yet people would have read Bay's newsletter and believed it. He said these shooting were planned and to do “With the occult planned war with Iraq just months away, we felt it likely that a human sacrifice ritual might be planned by a high-ranking Illuminist witch, to ensure that the powers of the demonic realm are fully in sync with the plan ”.

And the Bali Bomb Blast? Bay was ‘convinced ’ it was “a micro-nuclear warhead that only a few nations in the world possess…a micro-nuclear device of approximately 0.02 kilotons .” So he blamed the “Illuminati ”. But all the facts have now proven this NOT true. Yet he said the Illuminati might use these “micro-nuclear warheads…..on American cities” This was “the Establishment….hell-bent upon destroying this Old World Order so they can bring in the New World Order

And the US/British war in Iraq? Bay says that he “stated many times…..this war with Iraq has been planned for decades as the trigger to unleashing World War III, the war that will produce Antichrist ”.

Needless to say NOTHING of the sort happened. The Bible NEVER gave Bay this idea. Yet he quoted many scriptures as if the Bible teaches it. This war was the "Final Birth Sorrows of Matthew 24:8 ” he said.

And after the gulf-war Bay said, “Saddam Hussein ” had a huge army under the city of Baghdad just waiting. They will appear suddenly (when the time was right) and destroy the American forces in the city. That’s right, it NEVER happened, Bay was wrong again. His newsletters have WW3 happening many times, and they are full of similar stories. Some of his news reports are factual and make interesting reading. But Bay seems to think he is some kind of prophet and great Bible expounder who tells the future and reveals scripture.

Regards
___________________________________________

Hi Phillip


>>Thank you indeed dear brother for your letter e-mail. I agree with you totally in relation to a fanciful imagination and it is very true that many of these so-called end time ministries are not Christian ministries.<<

What I was trying to say was that conspiracy theories often come from fanciful imaginations. There's many “so-called end time ministries” that are “Christian ministries”. It’s unfortunate that some Christians (ie David Bay, & Meyer) have their heads fill of conspiracy theories. I can understand someone with a Pentecostal back-ground believing what they say. Pentecostalism with it's acceptance of modern day prophets is a real problem.

>>In fact many of them have been constructed by government departments to counteract the legitimate Christian ministry web-sites which are few and far between.<<

What evidence do you have that “many of them have been constructed by government departments to counteract the legitimate Christian ministry web-sites”? This sounds like conspiracy theory. Where is your evidence? Most are constructed by Christians, churches, or religious people not "by government departments."

>>Unless those who read these web-sites have the proper resources to investigate the information put forth for the public to read, then in fact it is a waste of time even clicking onto their web-sites. Many of the web-sites are actually mind control dupes set up by governmental military departments to actually make the whole Christian scene look stupid. I believe that the orchestrations have succeeded in doing just that.<<

Have you any evidence, any at all? Bays and Meyers websites are the 'waste of time'. They're the mind control dupes making 'the whole Christian scene look stupid'. Christian warfare is not with governmental military departments but with spiritual darkness, falsehood, and lies which prevents the spread of the gospel.

>>Did you know that the whole Pentecostal/charismatic was set up by the 'Illumaniti?'<<

No I didn’t. Do you seriously believe that? Any proof? The fact is, the evidence for an ‘illumanti’ exists mainly in the minds of those who believe there is an ‘Illuminati’. The ‘illunanti is yet another conspiracy theory all in itself. They are whatever you want them to be. They do whatever you want them to do. And when one digs for the truth regarding the Illuminati claims, it all disappears.

>>Did you know Billy Graham is a mind control dupe who has been successfully groomed especically to 'preach' the holy bible. Mr. Graham is also a 33 degree mason and has been financed very well to do the bidding of his 'masters'.<<

No didn't know that either. Another conspiracy theory you believe, but I don't. Dr Graham is a born again Christian who has faithfully served the Lord (not the 'masons') for years. He's an evangelist who preaches the gospel. I’ve read his books, heard his preaching, he loves and serves the Lord. Only his enemies would call him deceitful. He has been responsible for millions coming to know Christ as Saviour and many Christians renewing their commitment to Christ. Ever heard his preaching? I suggest you down-load some off the web.

>>How do I know that above information? It took me months to locate different sources of established evidence on this man, in which I felt was very important at the time due to the fact that I was attending a particular Baptist church fellowship in the SouthEnd region of England, and the fellowship admired Mr. Graham for his 'evangelical work'. I also attempted to point out that Mr. Graham is actually involved in the Eucemenical Movement to bring Roman Catholicism and Protestantism together in one unity. As usual this fellowship of believers wouldn't have it and I was their number one enemy.<<

The goals and purposes of Graham’s whole life have been to preach the gospel and win people for Christ, not unite Protestant and Catholic religions. Why don't you provide some 'evidence' and show it's not another conspiracy theory? No wonder you became “number one enemy” that's what conspiracy theories do, they spread lies and cause arguments. And the conspiracy theorist gets a bad reputation. I’m unconvinced Graham is a mason etc., but happy to read your evidence if you send it.

>>Probably the most acurate newsletter that I've been reading for years on all this rubbish is the http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org submitted by Mr. David J. Meyer.<<

So Meyer was the reason for your trouble at that Baptist church. Meyer is a conspiracy theorist like David Bay. See the damage they do? They make-up what they believe and don't care if its true or false. Their poison causes arguments in the church. 'Many false prophets have gone into the world'. They claim to predict the future and that 'God told' them. Today, God speaks through His Word not through prophets. Scripture has everything we need.

>>Unfortunately brother Meyer has different theological beliefs in which I believe are strictly contrary to the word of God. I also have communicated with this man via 'snail' letters and as usual they take certain parts of holy scripture in a literal scense.<<

What's wrong in believing the Bible in a ‘literal sense’? How did you become a Christian?

>>This also applies with Mr. Tom Lamb who I have also been communicating with. At the end of the day it's pointless arguing with men's pride and ignorance. I've requested that these above ministries preach the blessed gospel of Jesus Christ but to no avail they cannot hear me. Deaf ears brother Mark.<<

I'm not surprised they have 'deaf ears'. Billy Graham preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ and you have never heard him? And its no wonder Meyer avoids questions about his theories, he has no email address. So don’t take it personally if people reject your conspiracy theories. Most Christians rubbish such stories because they fail under scrutiny. They are stories made-up by those who don't love the truth. But you are welcome to email your research on Pentecostals and Billy Graham to prove your theories.

Regards.

________________________________

Hi Phillip

Thanks for the reply. I detect a certain acrimony that has developed in our emails and not without good reason because these matters are important. You said most ‘Christian websites’ are run by ‘government departments’, Graham is a Mason and the Illuminati started Pentecostalism. I'm still waiting for evidence on these. You write,


>>What part of Mr. David J. Meyer's 'Last Trumpet' newsletter is a 'theory'. What part of the newsletters 1984 to September, 2003 is 'fanciful imagination'. Every newsletter that Mr. Meyer submits is documented from world news articles and statements from the actual persons who are responsible for hideous crimes against humanity….. Is it correct what he reports? If not, show me where he has erred.<<

Yes, Meyer reads the news, documents his articles and knows Scripture. But he also twists scripture and news to suit (eg. Sept.03 Newsletter). “The United States of America is a nation that has drunken from the cup of the great whore of Revelation 17:4, and according to that verse, the beverage in that cup is a combination of abominations and the filthiness of fornication.” Most scholars of Bible eschatology wouldn’t use Rev.17:4 as Meyer. The context indicates the passage is future, as much of Revelation is. Yet Meyer says, “The book of Revelation has come alive, and we are walking within its pages every day .” In fact, he applies verses to anything regardless of context or accurateness. Does this make his bible quotes dubious?

And the Gulf War? He says, “
The war in Iraq……will soon be the end of this present world. This war that started on the witches' sabat of Ostara and was pronounced ended on the witches' high sabat of Beltaine has all the markings of occult planning and timing by the Masterminds of the Illuminati.” Wait and see, Meyer’s prophecy of the end of the world will NOT occur. 'America’s war' in Iraq is NOT mentioned in Scripture, but I don't think he knows that.

Meyer relies on the occult to guide his interpretations. He says President Bush (a born again Christian) is a Satanist who goes by the ‘full moon ’ and “secret societies such as the Skull and Bones”. He looks at Bush’s “belt buckle ” and says it’s a “symbol of a witch coven and answers directly to moon goddess worship ”. In fact, everywhere Meyer looks he sees witchcraft (only he can expose) and it all confirms his analysis.

And the recent power failure in NY? It “tells us when the lights go out in New York City the new world order is in place and in full power ” and all “according to perfect occult pattern ”. Why even the date is another evil sign - “August 14th, exactly 13 days from the end of the high cross-quarter witches' sabat of Lughnasaid”. So it wasn’t an accident but a sign. And with the “distance between the” planets, it all spells “666 ” (a number he finds everywhere).

So it wasn’t a ‘power failure ’ it was an “Illuministic project and test-run of the Department of Homeland Security, the American version of Hitler's Gestapo .” He says, “the Department of Homeland Security” is “the new age Gestapo” it’s “purpose and chief objective is ultimate totalitarian control ” (nothing to do with terrorism?).

So Meyer interprets news events according to the occult. But the truth is the occult has no illumination or revelation on world events, only deception. Yet he’s totally influenced in his interpretations. His focus on witchcraft for illumination will entice Christians to study witchcraft. Because he believes it has a true explanation for world events.

Without Meyer’s occult knowledge, who knows the meaning of news events? No one!!! This is the same Gnosticism of Bible days. Gnostics believed in God, good and evil and special knowledge. Without their disclosure, life and history would remain secret and available only to certain teachers. They explained the origin of all kinds of phenomena and the workings of evil in the world. “The thought-world of Gnosticism is chock-full of bizarre speculations” (p.142 Know the Truth. B. Milne 1988). So Meyer (as you) is Gnostic and finds secrets everywhere and exposes them. Even accidents become the power of witches and their evil plans. I noticed David Bay said he even contacted ‘former Satanists’ who confirmed his ideas about news events. You wrote,


>>According to your comments a 'conspiracy' against humanity does not exist? Is that correct? A conspiracy against God himself by Satan does not exist? Is that correct? A conspiracy against the true religion of the Christian faith does not exist? Is that correct?<<

There’s difference between Satan’s warfare ‘against humanity’ and ‘conspiracy theories’ which are normally unsupported by facts and don’t exist. Satan’s opposition against God is not a ‘theory’. The Bible gives us all we need to know about Satan’s plans and works (2 Pe.1:3 Col.2:9-10 2 Tim.3:16). And the Christian’s observation of that spiritual warfare isn't as Meyer or David Bay describe. Regarding Satan “….we are not ignorant of his devices” (1 Cor.2:11).

>>What evidence would you be prepared to accept that the word 'Illumaniti' is a name given to a certain peoples of association who have combined themselves to overthrow the existing religious institutions, and substitute reason, by which they expected to raise men and society to perfection. What part do you not understand?<<

Every theorist has different ideas about them. As I said, the Illumaniti exists in the minds of those who believe they exist. They are who ever you want them to be, and do whatever you want them to do. And when one digs for the truth regarding the claims, it all disappears. What part don't I ‘understand’? - believing something there's no ‘evidence’ for.

>>Can you provide me with information that there is no such thing as a 'conspiracy' which has never occurred within the world government departments throughout the history of mankind?<<

You are separating the words 'conspiracy' and 'theory'. Governments have formulated plans, ideas, visions, concepts, throughout history. But I refer to conspiracy theories that twist facts into fiction (ie “secret plan or story usually unproven” (or) “a plan formulated in the mind only” Dic).

>>As mentioned in my previous e-mail letter dear brother is that Mr. Meyer's facts and evidences have been proven indeed accurate. Show me where they haven't? I informed you that I do not agree with his theology as I do not see some of his doctrinal teaching according to holy scripture. But this does not mean that what he has reported is indeed incorrect. If it does, then show me his falseness.<<

But below you write, “I would like this letter e-mail to be the last in relation to this subject”. Are you really interested? I showed where David Bay’s ‘reports’ were wrong, I'm sure you still read him. I’m happy to go into great detail at length. But when Bay and Meyer disagree – who to believe? YOU should ask yourself, how much of Meyer is true. He mixes error and truth and the Bible and witchcraft.

He saw an “eclipse of the moon” and so he quotes Lk.21:25 and says scripture is now fulfilled “there is no question that this is a great sign that the beasts of Revelation 13 are unifying under one antichrist force”. This is true, or a lie. If true, Meyer is a prophet. So we all need Meyer to reveal the Bible’s fulfillment. His reports might be correct to you, but his interpretation to me is not. If its a lie, then he has fooled you.


>>Pastor David J. Meyer pastors a small church in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin, U.S.A, Beaver Dam Tabernacle. I have spoken with this man via the telephone and he has indeed spoken to me with intelligence, integrity, sincerity, and with a strong commitment to the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ who saved him from a very heavy life of witchcraft. I have never found this man to lie or exaggerate about world events or government decisions or dictatorships concerning the rule over the people.<<

Not all intelligent and sincere Pastors are doctrinally sound. I don’t share your admiration of Meyer. He clearly exaggerates. If you can’t see that, it’s because you refuse.

>>How would I prove to you that Satan owns ALL religions of this world? Can you? How could I prove to you that the Illumaniti invented the Pentecostal charismatic system? How could I prove to you that Satan gives first hand instructions to his people for the purpose of bringing about world events of anarchy and chaos. How can I prove to you that the Illumaniti (which is a religion based on the Babylonians ideologies) owns the Vatican, the Mafia and IRA and that the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons are branches of Masonry and witchcraft. How could I prove to you that the Military Intelligence murdered Princess Dianna. How could I prove to you that September 11th.. was in fact a western government intelligence (Oxymoron) orchestrated event etc..etc..etc.. How could I prove to you that the New South Wales Police Department, (Australia) is full of corruption and that Police have been known to shoot each other dead to stop a conviction in a court of law. Conspiracy theory?? (Theory!!)<<

Your first line is correct, and the NSW police might be corrupt. But the other stories sound like conspiracy theories. With every “theory”, there are a dozens of others that contradict it, and more weird than the others. God doesn’t ask me to believe them. ‘How could you prove?’ You haven’t proved your claims the Illumaniti invented Pentecostalism or Graham is a “33 Mason” yet.

Ask yourself, why are the vast majority of mainstream evangelical biblical scholars silent about an Illumaniti? Not because they are unchristian, or controlled by them, but because no secret society controls banks, religions, churches, Vatican, Mafia, IRA, armies, schools and media of all countries throughout history. And since they don’t exist, Christians don't require a warning.


>>When Satan spoke to Eve in the Garden of Eden and she committed sin, and then shared her self-righteous behaviour with her husband and then both had the ordacisity to justify themselves unto God, was this not in fact a 'conspiracy' against the laws of a holy God? Another word I find interesting in the Old Testament is the word 'ignorance'?<<

Again you confuse facts with ‘conspiracy theories’. The later is not the same as something supported by facts, by definition its conjecture.

>>At the end of the day people are quite comfortable to deny anything really ever going on in the first place because the accusers have refused to look at any sort of evidence. Isn't it quite strange to you that the normal average member of society has no real interest in anything? Isn't also interesting that the majority of Christians have no interest whatsoever as to what's really going on. Oh, I've got my Jesus and I go to church on Sundays. She'll be right. Jesus will look after me no matter what happens.<<

So who do I believe? - The vast majority of biblical scholars who have examined and endorsed Billy Graham’s theology and life, or that Seventh Day Adventist website you provided (by a conspiracy theorist)? How do you know they are not a gov/dept controlled by the Illumaniti?

SDA’s have no creditability, if they embrace the same conspiracy theories as you. Evangelical scholars regard SDA’s with words like ‘sect’ because of their weird doctrines and unique prophetic interpretations.

Dr Grahams preaching is the reason millions have found Christ as Saviour. God called him to the ministry and full time mass-evangelism. He welcomed ministers who did not necessarily agree with the entire message he preached (ie “Have you been born again….is Christ your Saviour?”). Many (ie SDA’s) care little about the new birth; they have a religion of keeping days and foods, so won’t support him.

Conspiracy theorists are disgraceful. They write anything about anyone and those who believe it cause trouble. How can SDA's compare Billy Graham to “mind control and slave abuse” and with “Jim Jones, Scientology, David Koresh”? And seriously headline, “Billy Graham's Active Role in Satanic Ritual Abuse” and say he’s “doing the work of Satan”. WOW!! I’m shocked by the lies. And since you identify with them it reflects on you.

SDA doctrine is nothing new to me. They insist ‘keeping Sunday’ is ‘the mark of the beast 666’. And those who do, are part of ‘the conspiracy against God’s law’. Billy Graham is nothing new. I’ve examined his books, doctrine and preaching and have more in common with him than SDA’s, Meyer or you.


>>I realize that this letter e-mail will not fit into your last e-mail letter to me brother. What can I say? Argue with you over the web-site? I don't think so? Anyway Mark, the Illumaniti can do what it wants to do, but if anything like a New World Order ever takes place in our life time, it will be interesting to see who the true Christians really are? I wonder how many will deny Jesus because of 'fear'. I would like this letter e-mail to be the last in relation to this subject. I do not want contention between us at all. Although I do not agree with some of your comments in your last e-mail, I can and must say that I love you in Jesus Christ and respect you very much because you are my brother in Jesus. Amen to that if nothing else. Kind Regards<<

You say, “I would like this letter e-mail to be the last in relation to this subject”. Why continually ask “show me his… show me where… provide me” and not want a reply? Considering the sharpness of our ‘argument’ perhaps it is appropriate to end correspondence. Your affectionate sentiments appear artificial, because Billy Graham is far more a ‘man of God’ than I. Why not ‘love’ and ‘respect’ him, he’s my true ‘brother in Jesus’.

Regards
Mark

mpp@xtra.co.nz
New Zealand (A real conspiracy theory?)

Intro
Home