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Hi Bronwyn,

>>Mark, If only the religious right agenda did in fact promote the values you describe.<<

Wouldn’t it be great!! Yes, nothing wrong with been true to the rules of the good book. All should promote those values, we both know are good. Mostly the ‘religious right’ do, at least more than unbelievers. Why not encourage, instead of mocking them. Mostly, they are the only people vocal for justice, honesty and decently.

>> But instead we see war, injustice, lies, dishonesty and subjection to primitive superstition. Religious fundamentalism is the same everywhere, irrespective of the beliefs - its zealotry renders adherents incapable of rational thought. <<

There is no human solution to the human problem. The problem is in man. We are all concerned with those ignoring the fundamentals of truth, justice & honesty – whoever they are. The rules of the Good Book are best. But only someone “incapable of rational thought” ignores that.

>>While many leftist governments have certainly failed, America today is a prime example of the disaster that can be wreaked upon the world by a conservative government. And the conservative base in America is so stupid that they'd vote for Bush again if he were allowed another term.<<

America is not perfect, but it promotes ‘ conservative’ values worldwide [ie freedom, justice and liberty]. And also paid a high price for your peace and freedom. Laying down one’s life for another is a value is missing in leftist governments.

Wish we had more ‘ conservatives’ in NZ. Our loony left government is a mess. Note their voting record –
http://answers.net.nz/Homo/voted2.htm
http://answers.net.nz/Homo/voted.htm

Why does the left consistently vote against family values and what is good and decent?

>>We are seekers of truth based on objective reality and objective examination of evidence, and we most certainly do not think that life has no meaning or value. Fundamentalists like to promote these untruths simply because they are unable to comprehend the absence of the supernatural, or to accept their own mortality.<<

Without God’s existence (1) the concepts of ‘ truth’, ‘reality’ or ‘value’ are nebulous. (2) Nothing can be absolutely right or wrong. (3) Life cannot have an explanation or meaning but just opinion. Human life then becomes ‘nasty, brutish and short’ with no hope, just despair. The big disaster of ‘unbelief.org’ is that God’s existence renders it absurd. It’s based on an illusion, it assumes God doesn’t exist.

>>Perhaps your mindset renders you incapable of rational thought. Have you ever experienced doubts that God exists? As Paul Tillich said, "Doubt isn't the opposite of faith, it is an element of faith". So the only real difference between you and me is the probability we assign. I don't know for sure there is no God, but I'm entirely unconvinced by the arguments for the affirmative.<<

Yes you “don’t know for sure there is a God”. You doubt because you ignore evidence “for the affirmative”. This time, follow the link, reasons I believe.

Anyone who thinks hast to believe. Belief in God is not a religious idea based on a nebulous '
faith', but based on what I know is true. When I say, "I believe there is a God" its a statement based on objective evidence. Our difference is that you “don’t know” but I do. And 'Tillich doubt and faith are opposites'? 'Doubt' and unbelief produce ignorance (Jn.20:27 16:9). He also said, "Looking at the tremendous impact the idea of God always made on human thought and behaviour. The theory that all this was produced by an uneducated arbitrary imagination appears utterly inadequate. Mythology can create stories about gods, but it cannot create the idea of God itself because the idea transcends all the elements of experience which constitute mythology" p128 Theology of Culture. And those great scientists I refer to?

>>Many of the better-known names did not have the evidence available today. And modern-day creationists start with the Bible as incontrovertible truth and force all evidence to fit. That isn't science!<<

Many are still alive. Look again. What 'evidence' denies there is a Creator? As for the bible, regarding history it has proved true repeatedly and it doesn’t change. The theories of men have proved wrong and science continually changes. Don’t confuse science (knowledge) and Darwinian evolution. With one we can fly to the moon, the other is a hypothesis. So why does Unbelief.con discriminate against unbelievers?

>>What rubbish! These are standard requirements and rules of debate in almost every online forum. Unbelievers aren't the lawless rabble that you apparently believe us to be ..Unlike almost every religious forum, unbelief.org is unmoderated (subject to our rules of debate)..<<

A system of 'rules' is a contradiction particularly for anything called “unbelief.con”. To be consistent you must believe in nothing. But if there are universal “ standards and rules” true for all (or else life is “lawless rabble”) then there is a God.

>>We welcome contributions from believers, but few are able to present their arguments in a coherent manner.<<

Now that’s rubbish. The rules are set-up to stop believers. No sooner I ‘ contributed’ than Brian B from unbelief.org insist I stop -

>>Hi there Mark, I used to argue the toss with Christian right psychos but found there were better ways of occupying my time… can you please stop persecuting poor, sweet, innocent guys and gals like us. Thanks a lot. Cheers Brian B<<

The truth is Unbelief.con is anti-believer, anti-Christian and anti-Christ. If you really do welcome ‘ contribution’ put my first email on your site.

>>We do not engage in debate by private email. If you have something original to contribute, join our forum. But if all you have to offer is false stereotyping of unbelievers and tired old creationist propaganda, you are wasting your time and ours. Regards, Bronwyn Thompson unbelief.org<<

Yes both you and Brian refuse to debate or even discuss the content of unbelief.con. It is only ‘ time wasting’ for those blocking their ears.

Fact (1) “only material attacking the Religious Right is acceptable on unbelief.org.” Articles are slanted & denied a right of reply.
Fact (2) Believers are targets; labeled “
stupid”, “incoherent”, “psycho”, “time wasters”, “incapable of rational thought”. There’s nothing but criticism of Christians who take the bible seriously.
Fact (3) Christian comments are rejected as “
false” and “propaganda”. At all costs must be stopped. Disagree? Write and say why mpp@xtra.co.nz

Regards, Mark


Evolution is a hypothesis based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts” (Dr Ernst Chain. Ph.D biochemistry. Nobel physiology. P.25 “Social Responsibility and the Scientists”)


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