Want Some Answers ???Pentecostalism
All Sandy's replies contain a strict copyright warning. So I won't offend him but summarize his comments -
He wrote, that I need to get my discernment back on track and he gave 3 webpage links to read and suggested I need to study and go to some discernment conferences. He however, has studied hours of video, audio and hundreds of books and gone to false teacher's meetings and knows what he's talking about. He rejects the third wave and 'peer review' as unnecessary.(End of summary).
Yes I looked at those WebPages you list (read before). I agree with your stand on those issues (as said before)
But when you email newsletters instructing people there are modern day “apostles and prophets” and ‘how to discern’, you are going to get a response. There are no 'apostles and prophets' today (except the false with Pentecostals and cults). Would you expect me to remain silent about deception in the church? No. All I’m saying is you need to get that part of your doctrine looked at or do some serious study on it, I believe you haven't.
Yes your form of Pentecostalism is ok by you, but the fact is, from THAT came the ‘third wave’. You are ignoring the connection between tongues and the slaying, and tongues and hypnosis. These are well documented. Although I’m thankful for the Toronto Blessing because it has finally made some of the spiritual descendants of Seymour critically examine the manifestations that have so long characterized their movement. At last Pentecostals and Charismatics are speaking against the manifestations, although there’s not much difference between the manifestations in either. And what of ‘laughter’ the new sign of being filled with the new wine, thus devaluing tongues? Yes. This seeking after laughter by tongue speakers is very revealing about their tongues. If a person has gold, why go looking for silver? – unless their gold is fake of course. And when another ‘new wave’ comes, be sure the same kind of people who spoke in tongues, then went for laughter, will be standing in line waiting for the new sign. The whole tongues movement from the start is NOT of God's Spirit, tongues in the Bible were REAL and with a purpose, but today its gibberish and a fraud.
Talk about “discernment conferences”. In 1995, after a 3 day conference, a group of Charismatic leaders expressed criticism of many aspects of the charismatic movement. Their words – “False prophecy has played a major role in the direction of the charismatic movement and it is essential for this to be faced honestly if serious and permanent damage is to be avoided (We) acknowledge that we all make mistakes.” (The Centre of Contemporary Ministry, Charismatic Crosswords, PWM Team Ministries London 1995 pg.9-10). But they (like you) made excuses for the thousands of minor false personal prophecies. None of the Bible prophets made mistakes. Yes we make mistakes but the Holy Spirit does not. You give the appearance of discernment but leave the little prophets still causing untold damage in churches. Is this the ‘perfect gift’ that God gives (Jas.1:17) or is it a counterfeit gift? This is one area of doctrine you are unbiblical on, time to get it sorted out. The only sensible answer is, there's no apostles or prophets today, they are not needed but the Bible (& preachers, teachers etc) are.
The great weakness of the charismatic movement has been their reliance on the gift of prophecy they profess to have. If it was a true gift and the prophesies ‘God-breathed’ there would be NO variance between the scriptures and contemporary revelations. However, this is not so in charismatic churches. The gift of prophecy which according to Scripture is supposed to build up the church has been found, in the charismatic movement to be its greatest weakness. It’s a disaster.
Don’t worry about me going to “discernment conferences” or not reading your website. Sandy, get the books I mention and read them. Seriously, they are JUST what you need, you WILL find them VERY interesting! Don’t be afraid, if you have the truth, the truth has nothing to fear (& without copyright). Those books have heaps of helpful information. I’ve studied at least one Pentecostal college but if you want to instruct me where my so-called 'discernment' is lacking, please do. Tell me more about the evidence that convinces you apostles and prophets are here today. But whatever you do, get this book, its worth every cent –
The Toronto Blessing and Slaying in the Spirit the telling wonder. Author & Publisher Nader Mikhaiel. PO Box 170 Earlwood 2206 NSW Australia. Fax 001161 2 6462620 [2nd edn 1995 3rd edn 1996] copyright 1992 by Nader Mikhaiel. (USA. David N Bubar PO Box 130 Delmar NY 12054 ph. 518 439 3544 fax 518 439 0105 or ph. 1 800 578 6060) (England. St Matthews Vicarage 24 Deldart St Cambridge CB1 2LX England ph. 01223363545 fax 01223 512304)
These others are interesting -
Charismatic Chaos. John F MacArthur Jr. (Zondervan Publ. 1992)
The Modern Tongues Movement.Robert G Gromacki (The Presbyterian & Reformed Publ. Co 1972)
The Holy Spirit In Today’s World. W.A Criswell (Zondervan Publ. 1996)
A Theology of the Holy Spirit. Frederick D. Bruner (Eerdmans 1970)